Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/16/1998 01:27 PM House RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                    
                   April 16, 1998                                              
                     1:27 p.m.                                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman                                        
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman                                         
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                       
Representative Ramona Barnes                                                   
Representative Fred Dyson                                                      
Representative Joe Green                                                       
Representative William K. (Bill) Williams                                      
Representative Irene Nicholia                                                  
Representative Reggie Joule                                                    
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
All members present                                                            
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:                                                         
                                                                               
Board of Game                                                                  
                                                                               
     Eric Williamson - Anchorage                                               
                                                                               
     - CONFIRMATION HEARD AND HELD                                             
                                                                               
(* First public hearing)                                                       
                                                                               
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                
                                                                               
No previous action to record                                                   
                                                                               
WITNESS REGISTER                                                               
                                                                               
ERIC WILLIAMSON, Appointee                                                     
   to the Board of Game                                                        
12720 Lupine Road                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska 99516                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 345-7678                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as appointee to the Board of Game.              
                                                                               
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
                                                                               
TAPE 98-48, SIDE A                                                             
Number 001                                                                     
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON called the House Resources Standing                    
Committee meeting to order at 1:27 p.m.  Members present at the                
call to order were Representatives Hudson, Ogan, Masek, Barnes,                
Dyson, Williams and Joule.  Representatives Green and Nicholia                 
arrived at 1:20 p.m. and 1:32 p.m., respectively.                              
                                                                               
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS                                                          
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the committee would take up the                   
appointee to the Board of Game, Eric Williamson.                               
                                                                               
ERIC WILLIAMSON, appointee to the Board of Game, stated he is a                
registered guide, a lifelong hunter and has served as an elected               
member of the Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee for the               
past five years.  He brings the perspective of a commercial user to            
the board which has been absent in recent years.  He recognizes a              
monetary and cultural value to not only wildlife itself, but to                
intact wildlife habitats.  The struggle over wildlife policy and               
regulations from various user groups over the years has muddled the            
core issue - conservation of wildlife populations.  The board                  
system provides excellent opportunities for participation by local             
fish and game advisory committees, organizations, and the concerned            
public.  The board's strength is its accessibility for public,                 
agency, and scientific input.  Having served three terms on the                
Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee, it has allowed him to              
understand the issues important to various interests groups,                   
particularly in Southcentral.  As a member of the Board of the                 
Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association, he has                   
learned to listen to public and agency information, and to make                
appropriate decisions as a group.  He was appointed in March to the            
Board of Game and sat on the board at the spring meeting in                    
Fairbanks.  In conclusion, he stated he is very willing and                    
committed to the board process.                                                
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the arrival of Representative Green.              
                                                                               
Number 095                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES asked Mr. Williamson what kind of                 
guide is he.                                                                   
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he has hunting, fishing and wildlife                    
watching programs - 50 percent is hunting, 45 percent is fishing,              
and 5 percent is wildlife watching.                                            
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson what kind of hunting.               
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied grizzly bear, moose, caribou, black bear and            
wolf.                                                                          
                                                                               
Number 099                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson about the Holitna River             
drainage "bone-in-bone-out" issue addressed at the board meeting.              
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he was not part of the deliberations.  The              
Holitna River is part of his guide area, therefore, there was a                
conflict of interest.  When the issue was first brought up last                
spring, he was on the committee that the board set up to look at               
it.  There were several aspects of the issue.  He cited controlling            
air access as an example.  As a guide, it would affect him even                
though he is not a pilot because he usually charters a float plane.            
The local residents were having a problem with the drop-off,                   
unguided float trips.  He was in between the factions on the                   
committee, but the committee was able to come up with some                     
compromises which included the "bone-in" regulation.                           
                                                                               
Number 143                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson when the committee he               
served on was making recommendations to the board did he ever read             
the law.                                                                       
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied no not at that point.                                   
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson whether he has read the             
law since then.                                                                
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes."                                                 
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson to state what the law               
says.                                                                          
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied it says that the meat has to be salvaged.               
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated that is not all the law says.  She                
asked Mr. Williamson to tell the committee members what the rest of            
the law says.                                                                  
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied the law says all the meat on the front and              
hind quarters has to be salvaged - neck, ribs and back straps.                 
                                                                               
Number 173                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said, "You're asking us to confirm you to the            
Board of Game and you have participated by your own testimony in               
establishing a regulation--recommending a regulation that went                 
before the board which you are now seeking to become part of.                  
Could you tell us what the law says about the bone?"                           
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he is not sure whether he can get the names             
of the bones right.  The law says the meat must be salvaged above              
the knees, ribs, neck and back straps.                                         
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated the law says the meat must be                     
salvaged, but the law on its face does not include the bone.  She              
asked Mr. Williamson how he could recommend that the board violate             
the law in good conscience.                                                    
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied the board receives its authority from the               
legislature and recognizes that it has to follow the laws.  It also            
takes advise from the Department of Law, and according to advise               
from the department, it was determined to be within the law.                   
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated it is not within the law.  It does not            
matter what any attorney general says when a law is clear on its               
face.  The legislature has an opinion from its attorneys that says             
just the opposite.  "You as board members swearing to uphold the               
laws of the state of Alaska, how can you sit there and tell me that            
you got a--taken an opinion from the Department of Law based upon              
the law that's clear on its face that says, 'this does not include             
bone, sinew, etc.'"                                                            
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied the legal matters seem to be quite                      
confusing.  The law appears to be clear.  The regulation was passed            
a year ago and the Department of Law has given its reading on it.              
It is a difficult situation, but the board uses the department for             
advise.                                                                        
                                                                               
Number 251                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated she could never support a confirmation            
of any member of a board who would choose to follow what the                   
Department of Law says versus what the law says on its face.                   
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated the Legislative Council Joint                     
Committee took up the issue.  Her understanding of the March                   
meeting is that the board said it was okay to not carry the bones              
out in the winter, but not in the summer.  It makes no sense                   
whatsoever.  She will never vote for another person to any board               
who cannot sit in front of a committee and say, "I will follow the             
law, not what an attorney tells me, but what the law says and its              
clear on its face."                                                            
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced that Representative Nicholia has been             
at the meeting for sometime now.                                               
                                                                               
Number 274                                                                     
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Williamson in what capacity was he                
involved with the issue.                                                       
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he did not have a strong feeling about the              
"bone-and-the-meat" issue.  Originally, the proposal said there                
wouldn't be any air access into Unit 19B - the part he was                     
concerned about.                                                               
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Williamson whether he was a member of             
the advisory committee.                                                        
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "No."  He was there as an individual and               
guide.                                                                         
                                                                               
Number 302                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked Mr. Williamson whether he is                    
involved with the actual taking of game.                                       
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied as a guide he sells a hunt.  There is no                
guarantee of success.  The trophy is an important part of what                 
hunters want.  It serves as a memory and concrete memento of the               
hunter's experience in Alaska.  There is a whole range of services             
and skills that he has to be able to provide in order for a                    
satisfying hunt.                                                               
                                                                               
Number 323                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he was wondering whether Mr. Williamson            
guides to take pictures, for example, or to actually harvest a                 
trophy or meat.                                                                
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied the bottom-line is to get an animal.                    
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained he asked because Mr. Williamson is              
a board member of the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism                 
Association.  There is concern among the members of the committee              
that it might bias him towards one end of the spectrum.  He asked              
Mr. Williamson whether he is still a member of the association.                
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he is a member of the association, but he               
has resigned from the board.  His role on the board was to                     
represent hunting, transporting, and sport fishing interests, as               
well as to use his knowledge of the board process and fish and game            
policies.  The Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association            
is primarily for nonconsumptive, small-scale, sustainable tourism.             
He feels there are a lot of concerns that overlap guided hunts and             
"lolly gags" in the wilderness - wildlife habitat and populations.             
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he doesn't mean to demean that as an               
activity.  He just wanted to be sure that his association with the             
Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association would not bias            
his opinions.                                                                  
                                                                               
Number 364                                                                     
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON explained to Representative Green that Mr.                  
Williamson already noted the percentage of his activities as a                 
guide.                                                                         
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he was concerned that part of the hunt             
was pictorial.                                                                 
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Williamson when drafting wolf                   
management policy would it be as a predator control, preservation,             
or something in between.  There have been efforts made to reduce               
predator impacts in certain areas that have started to diminish the            
game.  He wondered how Mr. Williamson would handle a problem like              
that.                                                                          
                                                                               
Number 380                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he believes in wildlife management which is             
why he is interested in a position on the board.  The Board of Game            
has a mandate for intensive management in instances where it has               
been identified as an area of high importance for human consumptive            
use.                                                                           
                                                                               
Number 391                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Williamson whether he would support             
that as opposed to maybe trying....                                            
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes."  He would support whatever measures             
are taken for intensive management.                                            
                                                                               
Number 393                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES gave Mr. Williamson the section of the                   
statute that defines the term "edible meat" and asked him to read              
it aloud.                                                                      
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON read the following:                                             
                                                                               
     "AS 16.30.030. Definitions.  'edible meat' means, in the                  
     case of big game animals, the meat of the ribs, neck,                     
     brisket, front quarters as far as the distal joint of the                 
     radius-ulna (knee), hindquarters as far as the distal                     
     joint of the tibia-fibula (hock), and that portion of the                 
     animal between the front and hindquarters; in the case of                 
     water fowl, the meat of the breast; however, 'edible                      
     meat' of big game or wild fowl does not include                           
                                                                               
          (A)  meat of the head;                                               
                                                                               
          (B)  meat that has been damaged and made                             
               inedible by the method of taking;                               
                                                                               
          (C)  bones, sinew, and incidental meat reasonably                    
               lost as a result of boning or a close trimming                  
               of the bones;                                                   
                                                                               
          (D)  viscera;"                                                       
                                                                               
Number 414                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson whether the law is                  
pretty clear.                                                                  
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes."                                                 
                                                                               
Number 416                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES read the following from a legal opinion:                 
                                                                               
     "Under As 16.30.020, the legislature has expressly                        
     authorized the Game Board to modify the wanton waste                      
     statute.  In so doing, however, the permitted                             
     modifications are in the way of making exceptions to the                  
     requirements of the statute by animal or by species, a                    
     relaxation of the terms that define the criminal act, and                 
     are not by way of authorizing the Board to extend the                     
     criminal statute to make its provisions more stringent.                   
                                                                               
     "Because the regulation in question has arguably not been                 
     construed by the Game Board in 'pari matria' with the                     
     existing statute defining conduct constituting a criminal                 
     offense, the regulation may be viewed as one that fails                   
     to comply with 'standards prescribed by other provisions                  
     of the law," the test of the second requirement of AS                     
     44.62.020 and, on that basis, may be determined to be                     
     invalid."                                                                 
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson what he thinks about the            
regulation adopted by the Board of Game after reading the law and              
an opinion from Legislative Legal Services.                                    
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "I guess the Board of Game probably needs              
to take another look at that" he said.                                         
                                                                               
Number 444                                                                     
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN stated he always admires and thanks anyone              
willing to serve the state.  It is a very difficult job, mostly                
thankless, and one has to put up with the confirmation process.  He            
noted that none of it is personal.                                             
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there has been a lot of discussion in the              
legislature about the authority delated to the Board of Game.  The             
legislature is very concerned about restricting traditional access             
into different areas.  Personally, he believes there are enough                
acres set aside for those who want a pure wilderness experience                
without any motorized vehicles.  He asked Mr. Williamson what his              
position is on restricting access in Unit 13 - the subsistence area            
of urban Alaskans.                                                             
                                                                               
Number 469                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he was at the board meeting last fall and               
there was quite a turnout for it.  There was also quite a turnout              
for the Anchorage Advisory Committee.  The testimony was pretty                
much in favor of outdoor recreation vehicle use (ORV) in Unit 13.              
There was some testimony from hunters who were disturbed by it                 
because they want to walk in.  He has read the board's jurisdiction            
and sees that there has to a biological problem or a chronic                   
conflict.  It appears that neither of the conditions exist.                    
Nevertheless, setting up the committee was proactive because it                
appears that its use is increasing.                                            
                                                                               
Number 498                                                                     
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Williamson whether he guides for wolves.            
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied if he comes across a wolf he will urge his              
client to shoot it because he considers it a fine trophy.                      
                                                                               
Number 503                                                                     
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated he was interested because he has not heard             
of anybody guiding for wolves specifically.  He understands it is              
an incidental take.  He wrote the law and tag fee for out-of-state             
residents.                                                                     
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there are a lot of people from rural Alaska            
who can't put food on their tables because of the wolf predation               
problem.  The Governor refuses to do anything about it other than              
to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on studies from outside              
firms.  He asked Mr. Williamson, if it got to the point of managing            
wildlife and kowtowing to a tourism boycott threat, would he                   
implement intensive management in spite of the threats.                        
                                                                               
Number 516                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes."  As a member of the Board of Game,              
its clear he would use the data and testimony from the local                   
residents.  The position that the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and             
Tourism Association took was for its members.  It was a very tough             
position to take; there were many members opposed to it who were               
hunters or who felt it was a subsistence issue.  It was an attempt             
to defuse the tourism boycott which was real.                                  
                                                                               
Number 542                                                                     
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK referred to the ballot initiative to              
prohibit the use of snares, and asked Mr. Williamson his position              
on the initiative.                                                             
                                                                               
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, principally, he is opposed to initiatives              
for wildlife management.  Trapping is an honorable lifestyle and               
very important to bush residents.  Snaring is valuable for predator            
management.  Therefore, he is very much opposed to the language of             
the ballot initiative.                                                         
                                                                               
Number 559                                                                     
                                                                               
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON recessed the meeting to the call of either co-              
chairman at 1:58 p.m.                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects